Joe Rogan Experience #1226 - Mike Baker

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• Mike Baker's New Show, "Black Files": Discussion about Baker's upcoming Discovery/Science Channel show, focusing on hidden budgets, "dark arts," and classified programs within the Defense Department and CIA. This includes historical and present-day spending on new technology, operations, and intelligence gathering, with some mention of UFO-related content from a declassified perspective.
• Secrecy & Oversight in the Intelligence Community: How budgets for agencies like the CIA are hidden within the Defense Department, the lack of public oversight, and the challenge of discussing classified information, even decades later.
• Creativity in Intelligence & Military Development: The process by which "incredibly smart people" devise new technologies and operational methodologies to solve complex problems, often in highly classified environments.
• Public Exposure of Special Operations: A debate on the "bro code" of silence among Special Operations forces (like Navy SEALs) versus the trend of members (and senior officials) writing books about their experiences. The pros (recruitment, public appreciation) and cons (breaking oaths, loss of brotherhood) are explored.
• Erosion of Journalistic Standards & "Fake News": A critique of modern journalism, citing lower standards, reliance on anonymous sources, and the intense competition to release information quickly, sometimes leading to retractions and undermining public trust, especially in the context of accusations like "fake news."
• Trump Administration's Relationship with Intelligence Agencies: The perceived impact of President Trump's attacks on the FBI and questioning of CIA analysis, with Baker suggesting that while individuals have opinions, the agencies largely remain focused on operational tasks.
• US Withdrawal from Syria & Geopolitical Implications: An in-depth discussion following a deadly attack on US servicemen. Topics include the rationale for US presence (guidance, training, targeting ISIS), the potential abandonment of Kurdish allies, Turkey's likely actions, and the long-term futility of declaring "mission accomplished" against adaptable ideological enemies like ISIS.
• Defining Victory Against Radical Islam: The argument that radical Islamic groups are an ideology that "morphs" and cannot be definitively defeated, making declarations of victory counterproductive.
• Commitment to Allies in Foreign Policy: The strategic and ethical imperative to honor commitments to allies, especially in complex regions like Syria, to maintain trust and influence.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• Mike Baker's new show, "Black Files," will delve into government programs funded by "hidden money," spanning historical operations to current new technologies.
• Much declassified information simply hasn't been examined or brought to light, offering potential for new revelations.
• The takedown of Osama Bin Laden was the result of "eight or nine years of [expletive] hard work," not luck.
• The precedent for Special Operations forces breaking silence on missions was arguably set by senior commanders and government officials writing memoirs.
• Baker suggests modern journalism sometimes operates with an "acceptable loss" mentality, akin to credit card fraud, willing to "throw [stuff] out there" and issue retractions if necessary due to competitive pressures.
• Joe Rogan observes that President Trump's communication style is "almost like he's got Tourette's," saying whatever is on his mind, which Trump's base views as a strength.
• Baker states that if the US fully withdraws from Syria, Turkey "will be in there in short order to kill as many of [the Kurds] as possible."
• Baker strongly advises against ever declaring "mission accomplished" or that radical Islamic groups have been defeated, stating, "shut the [expletive] up stop saying things like that," as these groups always find a way to "morph" and re-emerge.
• He concludes that while staying in Syria might not be a direct national security interest, protecting the Kurdish allies who worked with the US is "the right thing to do, and maybe sometimes that's enough."

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• "The show's gonna be called black files and a UFO type [stuff] well there's gonna be some of that." - Mike Baker on his new program.
• "A lot of shits been Declassified over the years that's just never been looked at or talked about." - Mike Baker on overlooked intelligence.
• "That was eight or nine years of [expletive] hard work right heavy lifting chasing down countless bad leads." - Mike Baker on the Bin Laden operation.
• "You sign a piece of paper at the very beginning that says you're gonna keep your Yap shut." - Mike Baker on the oath taken by intelligence personnel.
• "I think part of it is low standards... competition... the desire to get information out there quickly." - Mike Baker on the state of modern journalism.
• "It's almost like he's got Tourette's but I think he views it as a strength." - Joe Rogan on President Trump's communication style.
• "If we leave then [Erdogan] you know ahead of Turkey I guarantee you will be in there in short order to kill as many of them as possible." - Mike Baker on the fate of the Kurds after US withdrawal.
• "Every time they say you know we've done it mission accomplished... there's no upside to saying that shut the [expletive] up stop saying things like that." - Mike Baker's strong advice against premature declarations of victory against radical groups.
• "It's like you know you step on roaches over here and they pop up over here." - Mike Baker describing the adaptability of radical Islamic groups.
• "Is this in our national security interest well no I guess it's not but there's something that tells me it's the right thing to do and and maybe sometimes that's enough." - Mike Baker on the moral imperative to protect allies.

Overall Themes

• The Unseen Hand of Government: A deep dive into the hidden aspects of national security, from classified budgets and covert operations to advanced technological development, highlighting the tension between necessary secrecy and public accountability.
• Maintaining Trust and Integrity: Exploration of how trust is built and eroded within institutions (intelligence agencies, military) and between institutions and the public (media, government), emphasizing the importance of adherence to oaths and standards.
• The Evolving Nature of Conflict: The challenge of combating non-state actors and ideologies in modern warfare, where traditional definitions of victory are insufficient, and enemies constantly adapt and morph.
• Ethics vs. Geopolitics: The complex interplay between strategic national interests and moral obligations in foreign policy, particularly concerning alliances and the potential abandonment of partners in conflict zones.