Joe Rogan Experience #1591 - Jordan Burroughs

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• Jordan Burroughs' Potential MMA Transition: Discussion on why Burroughs ultimately chose not to pursue an MMA career, heavily influenced by his wife and concerns over head trauma, contrasting it with the careers of peers like Henry Cejudo and Daniel Cormier.
• Comparison of Wrestling and MMA: A detailed look at the fundamental differences between Olympic wrestling (scoring points, minimal damage) and MMA (deliberate damage, knockouts, submissions).
• Visibility and Marketing of Wrestling: The frustration over wrestling's lack of mainstream media attention and professional opportunities compared to other, sometimes less demanding, sports like golf or even cornhole.
• The Impact of the Internet on Fame: How the digital age allows anyone to achieve viral fame, sometimes unrelated to traditional talent, illustrated by the Cranberry Juice skateboarder.
• Evolution of Wrestling Rules: The constant, sometimes confusing, changes in Olympic wrestling rules, making it difficult for both casual fans and even competitors to keep up.
• Combat Jiu-Jitsu: Joe Rogan introduces Eddie Bravo's new grappling format that incorporates slapping, leading to a discussion on its realism and effectiveness.
• Japanese Combat Sports Culture & The Tokyo 2020/2021 Olympics: Japan's deep appreciation for combat sports and the unique challenges and experiences of the postponed Olympic Games, including the massive Olympic Village and its amenities.
• The Olympic Experience: Insights into the Olympic village, strict protocols, the diverse motivations of athletes (many not expecting medals), and Jordan Burroughs' personal story of celebrating his 2012 gold medal win.
• World Championships vs. Olympics: A comparison of the difficulty and prestige of these two pinnacle wrestling events, noting that World Championships are often harder to win due to a larger field, but Olympic gold carries unparalleled lifelong recognition.
• Weight Cutting in Wrestling: The extreme measures wrestlers take to make weight, with Jordan Burroughs sharing his personal weight cut (183 lbs walking weight to 163 lbs competition weight).
• New Olympic Sports: The controversial addition of sports like breakdancing to the Olympics and its potential impact on traditional sports like wrestling.
• Wrestlers in MMA: Discussion on why some elite wrestlers successfully transition to MMA (e.g., Usman, Gaethje) while others struggle, particularly with striking, and different boxing stances.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• Wife's Influence: Jordan's wife, Lauren, was the primary reason he avoided MMA due to concerns about brain trauma, highlighting a common dilemma for elite wrestlers.
• Wrestling vs. Fighting Philosophy: The core distinction: wrestling aims for points with minimal harm, while fighting's objective is to inflict damage or submission.
• "Cornhole on ESPN": Joe Rogan's humorous but pointed observation about the disparity in media coverage, with Jordan agreeing on the need for more wrestling visibility.
• Internet Fame Phenomenon: The "Fleetwood Mac skateboarder" example vividly illustrates how non-traditional content can achieve massive, spontaneous fame online.
• Wrestling Rule Confusion: Both Rogan and Burroughs express frustration over the constantly evolving and subjective wrestling rules, making it inaccessible for new viewers.
• Combat Jiu-Jitsu's Slapping: Jordan's bemused reaction to the slapping in Combat Jiu-Jitsu, likening it to "siblings fighting over the last Rice Krispies," was a memorable moment of levity.
• Olympic Village McDonald's: The revelation of a 24/7, free McDonald's in the Olympic Village, and Jordan's personal story of cutting the line with his gold medal, underscores the unique and sometimes surreal experience for athletes.
• Olympics as a "Participation Trophy": Burroughs explains that for many athletes, simply reaching the Olympics and representing their country is the peak achievement, not necessarily winning a medal.
• Olympics vs. Worlds Difficulty: Jordan's insight that World Championships are technically "harder" (more competitors, more matches) than the Olympics, but the latter's rarity and prestige make it the ultimate prize.
• "You Can't Lose Your Gold": The powerful sentiment that an Olympic gold medal bestows a permanent title, unlike a championship belt which can be lost, making it an eternal mark of achievement.
• Breakdancing in the Olympics: The surprising news of breakdancing's inclusion in Paris 2024, prompting reflection on the balance between traditional and modern sports.

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• Jordan Burroughs: "My wife Lauren really is the one that's talking me out of it [MMA]... it also has a lot more head trauma."
• Jordan Burroughs: "In wrestling you lose you get taken down pushed out... in fighting you lose you get something broken choked out tap you know it's unconscious."
• Joe Rogan: "Cornhole is on ESPN more often than wrestling."
• Jordan Burroughs: "The invention of the internet has definitely changed the game for our sport. We are in an epic time where anyone can be famous all you need is an iphone cell phone period."
• Jordan Burroughs (on wrestling rules): "Even if you're within it [the sport]... sometimes you have to address what the rule set is before you even compete in a tournament."
• Jordan Burroughs (on Combat Jiu-Jitsu slapping): "Does that look funny to you? I respect these dudes... but the slapping just reminds me of my sister and I back in middle school when my mom and dad were at work and we had a snow day."
• Jordan Burroughs (on Olympic Village McDonald's): "Everyone going to the olympics isn't expecting to win a medal... they're going with the expectation like hey listen i'm representing my home country with pride... when that mcdonald's is open 24 hours they're like let's go bro."
• Jordan Burroughs: "My first meal afterwards [after winning gold in 2012] was mcdonald's... a double cheeseburger with a high sea orange to drink and a large fry."
• Jordan Burroughs: "You will forever be an olympic gold medalist. You can't lose that. You can lose your belt right, you can never lose your gold."
• Jordan Burroughs: "The worlds are harder than the olympics."
• Jordan Burroughs: "Break dancing to the olympic games in Paris 2024 that's pretty crazy."

Overall Themes

• The Evolving Landscape of Combat Sports: The episode thoroughly explores the intersections, distinctions, and challenges facing various combat sports, from traditional wrestling to modern MMA and emerging formats like Combat Jiu-Jitsu, along with the shifting dynamics of their mainstream acceptance.
• Prestige, Sacrifice, and Reality in Elite Athletics: A central theme is the immense dedication required to reach the pinnacle of sports, exemplified by Jordan's Olympic journey and extreme weight cutting, balanced with the often-overlooked realities of rule complexities, funding issues, and the varied personal goals of athletes beyond just winning gold.
• Media, Marketing, and Cultural Relevance: The conversation repeatedly highlights the struggle of traditional sports like wrestling to gain mainstream attention in an era dominated by instant online fame and the commercial appeal of more readily digestible entertainment, underscoring the vital role of effective marketing and accessibility.
• Identity and Legacy: The discussion delves into how an athlete's identity is shaped by their achievements, particularly the lasting legacy of an Olympic gold medal versus the transient nature of other championships, emphasizing the profound personal and public impact of such distinctions.