JRE #968

Joe Rogan Experience #968 - Kelly Brogan

📅 May 31, 2017 ⏱️ 2h 58m 🎤 Kelly Brogan

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

  • Psychiatry in New York City: Discussed the high demand for psychiatrists in high-stress urban environments and the "fetishization" of therapy as almost an expectation.
  • "Paleo Deficit Disorder": Introduced this medical term referring to how far one has strayed from a natural lifestyle (green space, movement, sleep) impacting well-being.
  • Cyclical Living & Women's Hormonal Health: Explored the benefits of embracing natural cycles, contrasting the "energy shifts" of a natural menstrual cycle with the "artificial hijacking" of birth control.
  • Critique of Birth Control Pills:

    • Described as a "magic pill illusion" with significant, often unacknowledged costs.
    • Linked to increased antidepressant prescribing in teenagers (million-woman study in Scandinavia).
    • Known risks like pulmonary embolism, especially with smoking.
    • Impact on natural attraction (the "t-shirt study" showing altered pheromone detection).
    • Common side effect of low libido.
    • Discussion of the sociocultural double standard (male birth control study terminated due to side effects men didn't want to tolerate).
    • Alternatives like the "Daisy" temperature monitoring device were mentioned.

  • Conventional Psychiatric Practice:

    • Highlighted the absence of objective testing (blood tests, EEGs, scans) for psychiatric diagnoses, making it "impressionistic."
    • Discussed the influence of direct-to-consumer pharmaceutical advertising (US, Brazil, New Zealand are the only countries allowing it).
    • Critiqued the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual" (DSM) for its growth, industry ties, and "consensus decisions."
    • Revealed the minimal (one hour) nutrition education in medical schools.
    • Exposed pharmaceutical company influence on doctors (dinners, gifts).
    • Explained "consensus medicine" – practices continued by agreement rather than evidence.

  • The "Gene-Based Model" of Illness: Debated the prevailing medical premise that illness is largely genetic, which "frees Pharma to offer the only solution" and can inadvertently "coddle the victim."
  • Effectiveness of Natural Alternatives: Emphasized that lifestyle interventions (aerobic exercise, diet, sleep, herbs like turmeric, acupuncture, yoga) are often as or more effective than psychiatric medications for depression, especially when combined for synergistic effects.
  • The "Mindset Piece" in Health: Explored how personal beliefs about health – whether one believes they are "broken" and need chemicals or possess "innate wisdom" – greatly influence outcomes.
  • "N of One Medicine": Advocated for an individualized approach to mental health, recognizing diverse and personal causes (nutrient deficiencies, thyroid issues, job stress, relationship problems, psycho-spiritual emergence).

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

  • The idea that living in an urban environment can lead to a "paleo deficit disorder," highlighting the disconnect from basic human needs.
  • Kelly Brogan's personal journey of realizing the profound impact of the natural menstrual cycle and how birth control had "hijacked" her endocrine system for years.
  • The startling revelation that 49% of psychiatric prescriptions are written due to specific patient requests, often influenced by direct-to-consumer advertising.
  • The "t-shirt study" showcasing how birth control alters women's natural ability to detect biologically compatible partners through scent, illustrating a deeper biological impact.
  • The statistic that most medical doctors receive only one hour of nutrition education throughout their entire medical training.
  • The description of "consensus medicine" as a system where practices persist because doctors "all agree on it" rather than being solely evidence-based, especially when industry interests are involved.
  • The argument that the "gene-based determinism" model in medicine can be disempowering, framing individuals as victims who must rely on pharmaceutical solutions.
  • The assertion that regular aerobic exercise is as, or even more, effective than SSRIs for treating depression, challenging a core tenet of modern psychiatric care.
  • The powerful concept of "n of one medicine," advocating for a highly personalized approach that considers the unique biological and life circumstances of each individual.
  • The philosophical discussion about viewing the body as a "machine" vs. an entity with "innate wisdom" ("vitalism") that doesn't make mistakes but responds wisely to stimuli.

Notable Quotes or Revelations

  • "It's fetishized in New York to to have a psychiatrist."
  • "There's this term actually in the medical literature believe it or not called paleo deficit disorder."
  • On birth control: "the ultimate tool for oppression of you know the modern woman."
  • "There's no free lunch. There's never going to be something that just fixes it for you and you just waltz off into the sunset."
  • "There was just a million woman study in Scandinavia that showed about the vast increase in antidepressant prescribing for teenagers who are prescribed birth control."
  • "Low libido is one of the most common disclosed side effects of birth control."
  • "In psychiatry there's no objective testing measures."
  • "49%... of prescriptions that are written are written because of specific patient requests."
  • "We are one of three countries in the world that allows for direct to consumer [pharmaceutical advertising]."
  • "We have one hour of nutrition education in all of our medical school and residency training."
  • "It's called [consensus medicine] because it doesn't even have a connection to the evidence it's not evidence-based it's just they all agree on it."
  • "The efficacy of most antidepressants is pretty embarrassing."
  • "Exercise regular aerobic exercise in particular it does as much to treat depression as SSRIs more."
  • "This is being called like n of one